I want to point everyone in the direction of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Being an ethics prof, I get their magazine delivered to me at work, but you can also read it online.
I know these people exist, just below the surface, and sometimes on top of the fold, but we don't tend to think about these things. It's disconcerting to see it all laid out in a magazine, page after page of hatred and irrational thought. I am constantly wondering how these people got there, how they made the choice to live their lives in so much fear and rage.
Some people will say that they were just raised that way, they don't know any better. Bullshit. After you reach the age of consent (let's not get into that here), you decide what to believe and how to act. We aren't automatons. Is it based solely on anecdotal understanding? And I use the word understanding in a very loose way. For example: there's a picture on the cover this issue of a man holding a sign that states that he was stabbed by an illegal Mexican. Aside from the absurdity of that statement (there's no such thing as an illegal Mexican!), it implies that because he was stabbed by this particular person, all of those people are somehow bad. It's a dicto simpliciter fallacy and it is not something that makes for a successful foundation in life. Ever.
Why would you choose such a thing?
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Saturday, January 19, 2008
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20 blah blahs:
Okay, the sign should have said "Mexican Illegal Alien" but the facts are probably the same. If he managed to elude police, he's now across the border and will never be caught and punished.
That may be true, but the man attempted to invalidate not just a man but a nationality by his little sign.
Hmmm, we're supposed to be upset that he tried to invalidate a man who stabbed him? Is invalidation worse than attempted murder?
It's the same thing, isn't it? Assigning the label of less than human is akin to murder.
Of course, the implication wasn't that this one person was the entire problem.
G and I were talking about SPLC just last night - I also get the newsletter because I've been a supporter for years. We were watching a TV show about neo-Nazi groups & Morris Dees was one of the people featured in the program - the "other side," so to speak, I guess.
I was telling G that one of the saddest things I've ever seen was a girl on the Sally Jessie Rafael show when I was a teenager - she was my age, and except that she was involved in one of those groups, she looked like someone I'd have been friends with. She was pregnant; her boyfriend was involved in the same group. They were, of course, going to raise the baby in their "belief system."
I think about her every now and then & wonder what ever happened to her - did she, as you say, reach an age or a stage in her life where she could look at the things she professed to believe & decide they didn't make sense? What happened to her child? He or she would be nearly 20 now. It's weird that I think about that even though I never met this girl & just saw her for an hour on a TV show some afternoon. But I wonder if she ever came to see her beliefs the way I see them, or if she's still doing the same thing.
Hi Meg! I googled Sally Jesse Raphael and teenage pregnant skinhead in several different ways but didn't find anything. I would imagine that if those people didn't get to the place I was talking about they're either dead or in a prison of their own making or ours.
Assigning the label of less than human is akin to murder? No, I don't think so. In one case, you are offended. In the other, you are dead. I'd rather be pissed off and alive.
You're doing more than assigning a label to a person or group of people when you seek to harm them. The article in question concerned hate groups; that certainly implies action, does it not?
So, what? Everyone who's ever held a bigoted or hate filled opinion deserves life in prison or the death penalty?
It's terrifying to me that a philosophy "professor" doesn't understand the difference between thought and action.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that the man with the sign was attempting to disparage an entire nationality.....but that is a far cry from murder. I've known a lot of bigots in my life, not one of them has ever murdered anyone.
-Anonymous 2 (I'm not the same person who has been posting here for the last couple days)
Oh god, another one who oddly tries to question my credentials. Y'all are so weird.
Please point me to the place where I said seeking to invalidate a person or group IS THE SAME THING as murder. Then go and look up the definiton for akin. Mmm'kay, pumpkin?
I just have never heard someone who teaches at a community college called a professor.
Anonymous said "Is invalidation worse than attempted murder?" and the very first sentence in your next comment is "It's the same thing, isn't it?"
-Anon2
"I just have never heard someone who teaches at a community college called a professor."
Oh, bullshit. And now that I know your agenda and basically who you are? don't bother posting again.
It must be nice to ignore everything that proves you wrong. I'll have to give that a try some time, I'll bet it makes your life infinitely easier than mine.
Oh, poor yooooooou! your life is so haaaaaaaard! Well yeah, compared to mine. Must suck to idolize someone so fabulous.
My life is harder than yours in this respect. I actually have to atone for my sins. You just brush them off and pretend they never happened.
I don't have to pretend anything. Of course, when I've actually done something wrong, I admit it. I even email people to apologize. But when that doesn't fit in with their world view, it is, how did you put it? brushed aside.
How about if you stop making this about something it's not?
Anonymous said "Is invalidation worse than attempted murder?"
You said "It's the same thing, isn't it?"
I told you you had said that and you said "Please point me to the place where I said seeking to invalidate a person or group IS THE SAME THING as murder."
So I did.
YOU said that invalidating someone's humanity is the same as MURDER. Care to explain yourself?
Ah, I see where you're confused. If you take my sentence of context without the further clarification your point is valid. Any idiot can see that I was pointing to the idea behind the sign, murder, etc. Or, maybe not every idiot.
Ok, I'm a completely new anonymous who's never posted here before, but if you can accept that it's a valid point and that you might not have clearly communicated, why is it necessary to call someone an idiot?
Only necessary when people are being purposefully obtuse.
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